Planet Four Talk

Bugs - Not Spiders ... !?

  • Kitharode by Kitharode moderator

    What say you?

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  • angi60 by angi60 in response to Kitharode's comment.

    I say big fat juicy bugs - urrrgh!!

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  • angi60 by angi60 in response to Kitharode's comment.

    And yet more bugs............... (though not as good as yours!)

    enter image description here

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  • p.titchin by p.titchin in response to Kitharode's comment.

    CIMEXIFORM ?
    ~pete 😃

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  • wassock by wassock moderator

    Not been looking at these for a while so slightly fresh eyes. These are fundamentally different to the more traditional finely branching spiders. If these grew from the fine ones then one would expect to see some finer channels spreading out - there are none so either the terrain is different or the mechanism is different. Or both?

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  • Kitharode by Kitharode moderator in response to wassock's comment.

    I don't know if it's terrain or mechanism or both, but I agree these are a different 'species' to trad spiders. The bloated body and stumpy legs are wildly different to the 'point' or 'line' bodies of the long-legged variety.

    However, I'm hoping to put up a presentation soon that shows quite clearly that these bugs (called 'mites' in my presentation) exist in lines or groups that are sometimes adjacent to, or surrounded by groups of true spiders. Almost without exception the two groups never mingle, even though they may be confined to the same space.

    If the terrain differs, it must do so on a very local scale. The same applies to the mechanism. More later ... (hopefully) 😉

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  • p.titchin by p.titchin in response to Kitharode's comment.

    i see your original image is from the Inca city area, where the terrain varies largely over small areas. The 'mites' seem to run in a band below a ridge. Could the short arms and large central body depression occur where the surface is less 'compacted' and more easily eroded with lower venting pressures. The fans and blotches in areas of 'mites' usually seem to be small. My hair dryer has burnt out, so I can't try to simulate it ! 😃
    ~pete

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  • wassock by wassock moderator

    You could also consider the possibility that the formation of either has nothing to do with the fans and blotches. Fossilised remains of giant ameboid critters, or the marks left by the roots of giant trees perhaps?

    OK maybe not, but as I understand it the surface here has been exposed for a very long time, all spiders don't have fans and all fans dont have spiders. Thus the spiders could predate the fans. (that's come before them rather than eat them)

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  • p.titchin by p.titchin in response to wassock's comment.

    How long exposed? Ice thickness is another obvious factor here.

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  • Kitharode by Kitharode moderator

    Pete: Details of Inca City origin, formation, erosion and so forth are scarce. The scientists are still working on that.

    Wassock: Fossilised features is a bold, but very interesting idea.

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  • wassock by wassock moderator in response to Kitharode's comment.

    Not a serious suggestion, more by way of encouraging some lateral thinking - watch this space (or one nearby)

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  • p.titchin by p.titchin in response to Kitharode's comment.

    Hi, just found some more 'cimexiforms' in the Manhattan area. The HiRISE for APF0001wx0 about halfway down the RGB colour strip, if it's any help.
    ~pete

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  • Kitharode by Kitharode moderator in response to p.titchin's comment.

    Can't find 'cimexiform' in my dictionary (or google). Where did you get it from? Is it pronounced 'simex..' or 'kimex..'?

    Pity about your hairdryer. You'll have to get it fixed for winter. 😃 I've just got mine out to have a play - fascinating.

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  • wassock by wassock moderator

    Hi both - new thread for the HiRise of APF0001wx0 just started http://talk.planetfour.org/#/boards/BPF0000002/discussions/DPF0000fkn

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  • p.titchin by p.titchin in response to Kitharode's comment.

    cimex is the latin for 'bugs', in particular for what those old Romans on tour called 'bed bugs' The word covers a whole group of 'mites, but cimex really covers the appearance of your 'mites'. With regard to the hair dryer, Ive made a covert move on my wife's vacuum cleaner! I shall not be diverted from my theory!
    ~ Pete

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  • Kitharode by Kitharode moderator

    Ah, Roman. Now if it had been Greek I might have had a chance. 😃

    Glad I won't be there when yer wife finds out, Hahaha. I'm thinking of asking Richard Branson if he can lend me a four propeller aircraft - that'd be a blast, in more ways than one. 😃

    I'm looking forward to hearing more about the theory.

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  • angi60 by angi60 in response to Kitharode's comment.

    Do you think a Lancaster bomber would do the trick?! Four good Merlin engines (whoops, it's out - yes I'm an aircraft geek!)

    Pete: I'd love to be a fly on the wall in your house - your wife never knows what'll go missing next!! I'm glad Kitharode asked about 'cimexiform' - I wondered what it meant but didn't like to ask. The things you learn on PlanerFour!

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  • p.titchin by p.titchin in response to angi60's comment.

    As much of the wind around the pole is katabatic, perhaps a hovering rotary wing would do the trick.
    ~Pete

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  • angi60 by angi60 in response to p.titchin's comment.

    That's true, though I don't know much about helicopters - fixed wing aircraft are more my thing 😃 Good luck with your experiments!

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  • Kitharode by Kitharode moderator

    Pete: Yes the katabatic winds. Would you need to know which way the wind was blowing to use your rotary wing? If so, I can't help because I don't know which way it blows! 😃 If you do (or find out) it'd be good to know. I just keep finding other stuff that wants doing and never get round to digging that info out, so do please post anything you get on the katabatics. Failing that, info on how you get the vacuum to blow and a summary of results will do instead .. Hahaha 😉

    Angie60: If I had to go in a plane, I'd like it to have fixed wings too. Very securely fixed would be good. 😃

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  • p.titchin by p.titchin in response to Kitharode's comment.

    Hi Kith, As katabatic wind is essentially atmosphere that is falling downhill (gravity and/or temperature gradients) , my big downwards pointing fan is the kickstart that gravity and temperature gradient would give! Once moving it would spread out on 'the flat'. Regarding the vacuum cleaner, what sucks must also blow! Just depends which side of the motor the hose is attached!. 😃 .Seriously, I would expect these winds to be strong around the chasmae, and below steep dropoffs from the ice cap and exposed layered deposit regions. I'm trying to look at the fan directions in these areas. They often seem to be directed down and away from inclines ( I'm also aware that there has been discussion on venting angles on gradients and ballistics and whether in some cases there is any wind involved at all) .
    As always with Mars, "there are more questions than answers". I'm just enormously enjoying the hunt. I suspect that like Gertrude Stein, at the end, it will be- " What is the answer?----- In that case, what is the question?".. Time for a cuppa and more classifying!
    ~Pete.

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