Conical mounds

• by angi60

  Judging by the shadows they cast, are these conical mounds?

  Posted May 20, 2013 11:25 PM

• by wassock moderator

  That's what they look like Angi. I think I found them on a different image of the same area - http://talk.planetfour.org/#/boards/BPF0000002/discussions/DPF0000db8

  The shadows on my ones are not as good as yours and yours seem to be in the midst of spiders

  Posted May 21, 2013 7:57 AM

• by JellyMonster

  I'm not sure I would call these conical?

  

  Posted May 21, 2013 10:16 AM

• by angi60

  Jellymonster: Yes good point, thanks. To my eyes the bottom one above (top on original image) looks conical, whereas the other is more elongated, but with a sharply angled top (though I'm aware that could be an illusion!)

  Wassock: Thanks,yes I can see a resemblance to the objects you discussed, and they do seem to be associated with spiders. The angled features on them are fascinating. I'd love to know what they are and how they form!

  Posted May 21, 2013 10:57 PM

• by wassock moderator

  Angi I am fairly sure that yours and mine are the same things, need to get off this tablet and onto a proper PC to prove it though

  Posted May 21, 2013 11:27 PM

• by angi60 in response to wassock's comment.

  Yes, I suspect so too. The 'limpet' shaping is amazing!

  Posted May 21, 2013 11:45 PM

• by Kitharode moderator

  In JellyMonsters image above the two shadows cast by the two objects point in the same direction, as we might expect, but the sunlit side of the top object is very 'horizontal' with the lower one being more 'vertical. This seems a little strange and I'm wondering if it tells us something about the shapes of the objects (but I don't know what!).

  Might they be related to wassock's 'Angular Hills'? http://talk.planetfour.org/#/boards/BPF0000002/discussions/DPF0000db8

  Posted May 22, 2013 5:05 PM

• by angi60 in response to Kitharode's comment.

  Hi Kitharode. Yes, I see what you mean about the sunlit sides. Wassock did suggest they could be related to the angular hills he discussed. I wonder if the smaller one is like Wassock's 'limpet' mounds with a faceted surface, so perhaps the faceted surface doesn't reflect in the sun the same as a non-faceted surface. I suspect the more elongated mound is not the same as the 'limpet' mounds, so is not faceted. But that's just my uncomplicated take on it :-X

  Posted May 22, 2013 10:40 PM

• by Kitharode moderator in response to angi60's comment.

  It's a better take than mine - I don't have one! 😛

  They don't seem to stick up through the ground, or to lay on top of it, so it appears they are a part of the surface .. ??

  Posted May 23, 2013 5:32 PM

• by angi60 in response to Kitharode's comment.

  Yes, they're very strange. The more I stare at them, the more confused I get. The longer one seems to have a crack or channel running down it horizontally, and both have a black dot on them (maybe!). Obviously when you zoom in the image blurs, so it's difficult to be sure what you're looking at!

  Posted May 23, 2013 11:03 PM

• by Kitharode moderator

  Here's another one (left edge about halfway) http://planetfour.org/subjects/standard/5143480dea305267e9006491.jpg

  Undulating terrain seems to be a common theme. Spiders generally smallish and dendritic ... ?

  Late Edit: Looking at the HiRise image suggests that these mounds/hills are associated with undulating terrain and dendritics. http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_005500_005599/PSP_005513_0950/PSP_005513_0950_RGB.NOMAP.browse.jpg (image centred on -85 S and 95 E. Near the 'Manhattan' region).

  Posted June 24, 2013 7:45 PM

• by angi60 in response to Kitharode's comment.

  Thanks Kitharode. Well spotted. Yes these images do suggest that the mounds seem to be at the centre of 'young' spider formations, and I agree about the undulating terrain. The shadows of the mounds on 'your' image and 'mine' seem to suggest they're conical, but whether they all are I'm not sure. Do you think they could be some sort of 'geyser' ?

  Posted June 28, 2013 11:08 PM

• by Kitharode moderator

  I'm inclined to think more in terms of 'rock' than geyser, but who knows? I think they're a part of the geology, but I can't figure if they're part of the surface or something protruding through it. Probably the former. Or not ... 😛

  Posted June 29, 2013 7:13 PM

• by angi60 in response to Kitharode's comment.

  Some help you are - haha!! We need a friendly Martian to help us out. Failing that a friendly Scientist! :-X They're certainly odd-looking rocks and very distinctive. And why do they appear at the centre of spiders?

  Posted June 30, 2013 12:03 AM

• by mschwamb scientist, translator

  It does look like there are shadows, so it does look like they are really raised features.
  Cheers,
  ~Meg

  Posted June 30, 2013 5:41 PM

• by Kitharode moderator in response to angi60's comment.

  "And why do they appear at the centre of spiders?". Good question. We did kick some ideas around in earlier discussions when we were looking at boulders and such. A raised conical mound (or a boulder) should catch more solar radiation so may act as a 'hotspot' that starts the spider forming process. We didn't come to any real conclusions so the question is still open, I think.

  Although it may not be true for your 'mounds', one not-impossible scenario might be this: We know your mounds are in an area on the polar layered deposits. We know from other images that some areas of layered deposits are being eroded, exposing the underlying layer. Perhaps the underlying layer in your image is really 'lumpy' and covered in mounds. If the undulating top layer is being eroded then the mounds could well be the first parts of the under layer to be exposed. The mound becomes a hotspot. The spiders form in the top layer, where the material is more susceptible to erosion, down to the more solid layer beneath.

  Many assumptions, no real evidence, so it's nothing more than an idea. But a good collection of Conical Mounds and Angular Hills would make an interesting study methinks.

  Posted June 30, 2013 7:40 PM

• by Portyankina scientist

  I have only seen these mounds in Inca City. I am wondering if anybody spotted them any place else?
  To me they look like very eroded boulders, maybe a long-ago lump of dirty ice that lost ice content over time. Maybe they rolled down from the nearby Inca City "walls". But I do not have a good explanation really.

  Anya

  Posted June 30, 2013 9:21 PM

• by angi60

  Meg and Anya: Thanks for responding 😃 I'm glad you're keeping an eye on us 😛 These mounds just struck me as being interesting due to their shape. I'll now keep an eye out for more and keep a record of where they are. Looks like I have a new hobby! Regards, Angi.

  Kitharode: Your suggestions sound good to me. But, as you say, it's still open to discussion. If Meg and Anya don't know, then pity help me!! But it could be the start of an interesting project 😃

  Posted July 1, 2013 12:07 AM

• by wassock moderator in response to Portyankina's comment.

  Don't think any of these are anywhere near Inca City, take a look at the ones I found, these are quite angular in appearance

  http://talk.planetfour.org/#/boards/BPF0000002/discussions/DPF0000db8

  Posted July 1, 2013 12:46 AM

• by Kitharode moderator in response to wassock's comment.

  Your link brings us back here. Is it the right link?

  Posted July 1, 2013 1:00 AM

• by wassock moderator in response to Kitharode's comment.

  tis now

  Posted July 1, 2013 1:04 AM

• by angi60 in response to wassock's comment.

  Glad you pointed that out to Anya, Wassock. Kitharode also noticed that they seem to be in the Manhattan area. I had an image tonight from the same area (sadly I don't know how to insert it into this discussion, but it was image APF0001h7r). Well done with your blog about Zoocon by the way. It all sounded very interesting - shame I couldn't be there!

  Posted July 1, 2013 11:40 PM

• by wassock moderator

  this one?

  

  doing this is easy - go to the discussion page for the image, right click and open in a new window or tab. copy the url for the image then back to the discussion board and start a post. to insert the image click the picture icon and then paste the image url into the box. Job Done.

  thanks for you appreciation of the blog, it really was worth going

  Posted July 2, 2013 12:27 AM

• by angi60 in response to wassock's comment.

  Yes, that's the one. Not the best image obviously! Thanks for the tip on how to insert images- something I've always wondered how to do. I'll try it sometime 😃 Glad you found enjoyed ZooCon.

  Posted July 2, 2013 10:54 PM

• by mschwamb scientist, translator

  Apologies if I'm missed the mark. I think Anya was referring to have you seen more of the big boulder-like things with the channels emanating underneath them rather than the undulating terrain. In the one posted above I don't see anything obvious that resembles that. Do you see anything?
  Cheers,
  ~Meg

  Posted July 3, 2013 4:19 AM

• by wassock moderator in response to mschwamb's comment.

  Meg not sure why Angi wanted to post the half red image, I only put it up to try and help her to figure out how. Anya asked if we'd seen any of these outside Inca City, point being that none of them are from there, and there are lots of them in the area.

  Posted July 3, 2013 7:38 AM

• by angi60 in response to mschwamb's comment.

  Apologies if I've caused confusion too! I only mentioned the above image to Wassock because it was from the same area (Manhattan), with the same undulations and spiders. However it's difficult to see the boulders on it. (I was grateful to Wassock for showing me how to post images into discussions though!)

  Posted July 3, 2013 11:25 PM

• by Kitharode moderator

  These might be related: http://planetfour.org/subjects/standard/5143480dea305267e900645a.jpg but on smoother ground and no spiders. I think they're in the top third of the HiRise image below.

  Bottom half of http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_005500_005599/PSP_005513_0950/PSP_005513_0950_RGB.NOMAP.browse.jpg has loads of everything going on.

  Southern summer - near Manhatten region.

  Posted July 4, 2013 5:35 PM

• by Kitharode moderator

  Bacterial Bumps? Different to conical mounds and angular hills but perhaps somehow related? http://www.planetfour.org/subjects/standard/5143480bea305267e900012f.jpg We've discussed this image elsewhere, but I forget what for.

  Do we agree that these mounds appear to be different objects to your 'everyday' boulders? I suppose they could just be very big boulders.

  Posted July 4, 2013 6:49 PM

• by angi60 in response to Kitharode's comment.

  The middle link you give above is excellent, though it's not possible to zoom in on the boulders without blurring (unless there's a way to do it that I'm not aware of - quite likely!). But I notice that lots of the boulders/mounds at the bottom half of the image have the same triangular and symmetrical shadow as the one on the original image at the start of this thread. This to me suggests a strangely conical shape again. Therefore I don't feel they're the same as 'normal' boulders. I also think that if we could see them closer up they would have the same 'limpet' like features as the mounds Wassock discussed. The second boulder on the original image at the start of this thread was different in that it was elongated, but it still looks odd.

  I notice the title on the HiRise page is often 'Manhatten geysers and spider evolution'. Could the conical mounds be deposits gradually building up over time as a geyser vents? (that's from a non-geologist!)

  The type of images like the bottom link above were discussed in the thread 'Boulders on Tors' about three weeks ago, and they too are of a very distinctive and interesting terrain.

  Posted July 4, 2013 10:53 PM